If you can answer 'yes' to all of the questions below, then by all means
feel free to think of yourself as equal to or better than these ~el8 guys.
Otherwise, please stop speaking down to people who are obviously much more
technically skilled than your ignorance will ever allow you to be.

* Do you know how to program in C? Are you intimately familiar with ISO C89?
C99? While other people in your neighbourhood were out partying, were you
sitting at home in bed making an almost biblical study of the POSIX
standards? What about those from The Open Group?

* Do you know how to write hash tables? Balanced trees? Do you know the art
of algorithms? Do you know Knuth's work like the back of your hand? Did you
teach yourself everything about computers that one would otherwise only
learn by paying thousands of dollars for in Computer Science tuition?

* Do you know how to juggle assembly code in your head for multiple
architectures, such as MIPS, SPARC, x86? Do you understand the peculiarities
of each architecture down to the nittiest, grittiest details? Can you
optimize your own assembly routines? Can you take advantage of things such
as Pentium instruction pairing or the delay slots in various RISC
architectures? Do you understand the deal with the I-Cache on MIPS? Are you
fluent in assembly language? Hell, do you even know what SPARC stands for?
Quadrants in PA-RISC, make sense?

* Do you know how to write your own exploits? Do you know how to audit
software with surgical precision for the most intricate bugs imaginable? Do
you know how to take advantage of buffer overflows? Do you know how to
exploit off-by-one errors on a little-endian machine? Do you know about
integer overflows and signedness issues? Can you exploit format string
vulnerabilities? Can you gain control of a process vulnerable to a heap
overflow via a deep knowledge of the malloc implementation on the target
host? Do you know how to bypass the "security" afforded by crap like
Openwall, StackGuard, PaX? Or is your knowledge of these things limited to
the papers that non-hackers publish? You probably think the people trying to
help the security community with bullshit patches/fixes like this are
hackers, when in fact no hacker would ever publish any such thing that aims
to improve security.

* Have you studied the UNIX kernel with as much fervour as some would have
for physical pursuits such as basketball or baseball? Do you know the data
structures and organization in the kernels of various operating systems?
Have you read books on UNIX internals cover to cover? Do you know how Linux
works under the hood? Can you write your own kernel modules for both defense
and offense? Ever written a kld on FreeBSD? Can you write a device driver
for a peripheral that your OS doesn't support? Can you find flaws in kernel
src trees that allow you to compromise a machine given local access?

* What do you know about evading (N)IDS? Your knowledge isn't limited to
what Thomas Ptacek & Tim Newsham have said years ago, right? Surely you
don't rely on tools written by people like Dug Song who like to think of
themselves as hackers, when in fact they are traitors to the underground,
assuming they were ever a part of it to begin with.

* What do you know about defeating firewalls? What techniques have you
innovated and pioneered on your own? What tools have you written that allow
you to toy with firewalls? Hell, the fucktard security community is probably
limited to lameass crap like Firewalk.

* What do you know about web security? Do you sit back and laugh at the
"cross-site scripting" revolution governed by an idea that has been around
well before the CSS/XSS sensation that literally blew the dumbass security
community apart? Must've wasted a lot of brain cells with that gigantic
stretch of the imagination. Do you laugh at all these "SQL injection" papers
and how most of them overlook the blatantly obvious: they have you believe
you have to fumble around with all kinds of convoluted queries to achieve
something that can be done with minimal typing if only they'd read the
fucking documentation for various DBMS. Their CGI experts like RFP and
Zenomorph call certain script conditions non-exploitable, e.g. when you
can't get arguments supplied to a binary that you've managed to trick a Perl
script into running -- RFP mentions this in his Phrack article -- yet any
moron can easily figure out that you can use the POST method, make the
script run /usr/bin/perl for instance, and have it run a script of your
choice that is fed as stdin from the HTTP request's POST data. Oh God, sorry
for pushing the realm of web security forward with this INCREDIBLY COMPLEX
revelation.

* Have you written your own tools that exploit protocol weaknesses? Have you
written your own tools for routing protocol weaknesses, e.g. RIP, BGP? Have
you written your own tools that play games with DNS? Have you written your
own ARP cache poisoning / mitm tools? Your own tools for shit like icmp
redirects and router advertisements? Can you write a tool that will exploit
the TCP sequence number prediction + IP spoofing vulnerability of older
days? Or can you only mock Mitnick for his 1994 attack, calling him a
scriptkiddy? Or utter useless banter about ISNs and cookies that you
digested from some textfile? Who are you kidding? Fuck, have you read all 3
volumes of the glorious TCP/IP Illustrated, or can you just mumble some
useless crap about a 3-way handshake? Do you know Net/3 code? TCP
algorithms? TCP extensions? Perhaps you're some fucking security expert
because you've memorized /etc/services -- a walking fucking getservbyport, a
la 70% of the Vuln-Dev subscription base.

.....................................

I have seen the ~el8 guys cover the full spectrum of everything discussed
above. 95% of the people calling them scriptkids probably can't even code
helloworld.c.

Further ranting for those who are so quick to judge...

Are you just a fucking whitehat leech who knows nothing more than how to use
tools written by others? Using techniques and exploits that most likely
originated in the playground of blackhats known as the computer underground.
More likely than not you're a fucking scriptkid who only knows how to do
mundane and trivial crap like configuring ACLs on a Cisco router or some
half-assed product such as Firewall-1.

You likely are so ignorant that you believe anyone who compromises machines
is a clueless scriptkiddy like yourself. You likely are so idiotic that you
believe that Bugtraq and CERT will protect you from the latest 0day
exploits.

You think Apache 1.3.26 can't be compromised remotely with one of four two
year old Apache remotes that haven't even been hinted at on the security
lists. You think sendmail is (now) remotely secure because what you don't
see on Bugtraq doesn't exist. Qmail. ProFTPd. My God, you people are so
fucking out of it. People report intrusions on their machines and you
dumbfucks immediately conclude it's done by some public vulnerability, e.g.
OpenSSL. That's right, because in your ignorant bliss there are no skilled
people out there who would actually use their exploits to hack.
Narrow-minded fools. Scriptkiddies.

You know nothing of what lurks beneath the surface glamour of the corrupt
security industry/community. Your only resort is to call these people kids.

Trust me, they laugh at you clueless imbeciles. They laugh at your feeble
attempts to manipulate hacking so that it becomes some fucking ethical or
philanthropic pursuit. They laugh at your "hacker vs. cracker" debates. They
laugh at anyone who thinks hacking isn't about compromising computer
systems.

Who are the scriptkids now? You're outgunned and outclassed. Take a nap and
retire, you pathetic leeches.

It's time for an underground revolution. You all quote The Mentor's
Manifesto in your misguided ethics rants; alas, The Mentor was an active
hacker, in the true, modern sense of the word. Stop being brainwashed ye
hackers. Keep your souls untarnished.

It's time to bring the corrupt security industry to its knees.

THE SECURITY INDUSTRY DEMOLISHED OUR WORLD.

THERE WILL NOW BE HELL TO PAY.


                Offer up your best defense
                But this is the end
                This is the end of the innocence